Testimony of Muhammed Kaya
Presiding Judge
Presiding Judge : Muhammed Kaya. Muhammed, you’re wearing red again.
Muhammed Kaya : I had no other coat. I had no other coat, sir.
Presiding Judge : Very well. You are detained, I believe. In another investigation. First of all, you have the right to refrain from testifying. On one side is your uncle, on another your uncle’s son. On another your aunt-in-law. You have the right to refrain from testifying. Do not let it be misunderstood by us that refraining from testifying means you answered questions and ran away. It is your legal right. Do you wish to testify?
Muhammed Kaya : Okay.
Presiding Judge : Then we will hear you without oath. There is an investigation concerning you. Because of that investigation I will intervene in some questions. You also have the right not to answer questions that impute a crime to you, that allege you are an offender. Let me also explain this to the press so it is not misunderstood. Friends, here is the situation. The witness is a suspect in another investigation. Therefore, they have the right not to answer questions here that would affect their status in that investigation. This is a right granted by the CMK. Do you understand? The presiding judge’s intervention is an intervention in this direction. Such a question would constitute an accusation of crime against him. For example: Did you help Salim kill the body? That question is one that imputes an offense to him. That is why I intervene. This is the reason for my intervention. Do you understand? Do not let it be misunderstood. Everything you put out is being taken to other meanings. Let me explain this to you as well.
Presiding Judge : Yes. Muhammed. Let us start from the day Narin went missing. Where were you that day? What were you doing? Do you remember?
Muhammed Kaya : I woke up at eight. We were distributing invitations. My cousin Uğurcan had a wedding. Around two, two-thirty, the four of us headed toward Mardin Derik. We were going to distribute invitations there. Around two, two-thirty we took the village roads toward Derik. At seven-thirty we took a meal break at the house of my uncle Barış Güran’s mother-in-law. At eight-thirty-five my cousin Devran Güran got word that Narin had gone missing. At eight-thirty we set off from there toward the village. We arrived from Derik to the village in about forty-five minutes to an hour.
Presiding Judge : And you began search activities?
Muhammed Kaya : I searched the village. Then at night there was someone called Uncle Emir. He said he had jinn and so on.
Presiding Judge : Soldiers, move to that side please. Do not stand around our witness. You as well, come. Come here. We have no issue. Let our witness be comfortable. You are comfortable, right? You are giving your statement of your own free will. Okay. Our duty as the court is to ensure you can give your statement comfortably. Yes. We continue.
Muhammed Kaya : I started searching the village. I looked into wells. I opened the closed well and looked. I looked into empty wells. I checked the canal side. I, Uğurcan Güran.
Presiding Judge : Now can you come to the day you found the slipper?
Muhammed Kaya : The day I found the slipper was the second day. The 22nd of the month. We were on the canal bridge. My aunt-in-law called me and said the children were out of milk. I have two nieces/nephews. “Can you buy milk? Do you have a car?” I said yes. I was going to buy milk. I saw the slipper. On the village road. I passed over the slipper from about two and a half kilometers away. There were Gypsies’ tents on the side. I thought it belonged to them. I bought the milk and so on. On the way back I saw the slipper again. I thought, maybe it’s theirs, maybe it isn’t, so I should take it. I showed it to my aunt-in-law.
Presiding Judge : So you drove over the slipper. At first.
Muhammed Kaya : It was in the middle of the road.
Presiding Judge : Well Muhammed, here is the key point. Here is the matter of debate. Perhaps thousands of people, maybe hundreds, passed along that road. They did not see that slipper but you did. The allegation is this. You have the right not to answer this question. Did you, at the prompting or direction of one of the defendants, place that slipper there and make such a move in order to derail the investigation? Did anyone tell you to place that slipper there, find it, and draw the gendarmerie in that direction?
Muhammed Kaya : No.
Presiding Judge : Did Salim, or the others—Nevzat, Yüksel, Enes—give such an instruction?
Muhammed Kaya : Absolutely not.
Presiding Judge : Then what is the reason that you found that slipper there while, as I said, the other defendants and other family members could not?
Muhammed Kaya : Well, it could simply be a coincidence. For example, a car could have passed and a child could have thrown the slipper out of the car. Or it could belong to the Gypsies.
Presiding Judge : You’re saying, how would I know? I passed and I saw it.
Muhammed Kaya : I passed and I saw the slipper. At first I said it must belong to the Gypsies. I passed it by. Then on the way back it was still there. It was in the same place on the way back. I drove over it again. Then I thought, just in case, let me show it to my aunt-in-law. If the slipper is hers, we already know the place. If it is not hers, it is trash anyway. I went to the village. There was a commotion at my uncle’s house. It was very crowded. New cars and so on. The gendarmerie were shouting. Thinking something had happened there, I jumped out of the car and ran straight to the house. “Has something happened?” They said no. They were going to hold a meeting. They were clearing everyone out of the house. A gendarme was shouting. There was a commander shouting. My mother and so on were there. I am against that sort of thing. I said, “Commander, don’t shout, I will clear everyone out.” He said okay. I cleared everyone out of the house. My mother’s maternal aunt is diabetic and cannot walk on her own.
Presiding Judge : What is your mother’s name?
Muhammed Kaya : İlhan.
Presiding Judge : İlhan.
Muhammed Kaya : My aunt Azize helped my great-aunt. They brought her to the stairs. I took her by the legs and carried her down the stairs. Then I said, let me take you to Uncle Salim’s. She said no, take me to Hüseyin Güran’s house, his brother’s. I said okay. “Is there a car?” “Yes, right across.” I put her in the car. I gave the bag to my aunt. My phone was on charge, I asked for it. Then I went to Hüseyin Güran’s house. I took her out of the car; at that moment Osman Güran arrived. “I’m out of cigarettes. Let’s go to the petrol station.” I said okay. We went to the petrol station and bought cigarettes. Then my cousin Uğurcan called. “We’re up on the hill. Come sit for five or ten minutes.” Okay. We went up. Then Osman said, I’m going to the village. Osman said, I’m going to the village. You’ll come. We had two cars by then. I said okay. He got into that car. At that moment, his legs are longer than mine. He adjusted the seat. He noticed the slipper.
Presiding Judge : Yes.
Muhammed Kaya : He noticed the slipper. He said, whose slipper is this? Only then did it come to my mind. I said, I found it on the road. “Bring it right away to your aunt-in-law—let’s send it to Baran. Let her show it.” If it is the slipper, we already know the place. If not, it’s trash.
Presiding Judge : So the reason you forgot the slipper was because they were going to hold that meeting, due to the commotion.
Muhammed Kaya : After that I was never alone. And I had been without sleep for 36 hours.
Presiding Judge : I had been without sleep for 36 hours. But Muhammed, what do you do for a living?
Muhammed Kaya : I am a civil servant. At Trakya University.
Presiding Judge : This is a very serious piece of evidence.
Muhammed Kaya : I came on Saturday. I came for the wedding. My cousin’s happiness—we were going to celebrate it. Now such a thing happened to us.
Presiding Judge : What I mean is this: finding the slipper was a big deal that day. If a slipper was found, the search would be directed that way. In this regard, you are a civil servant and also a bright young man. From your answers I understand as much. You can express yourself quite well. The fact that you could forget this came across as a bit odd to us. Perhaps it is because this struck us as odd that you are detained. I am not concerned with why you are detained, but as a court this is the aspect that seems odd to us. When you found the slipper, shouldn’t you have shown it to everyone first?
Muhammed Kaya : Because of the commotion there, I forgot the slipper.
Presiding Judge : That is the matter.
Muhammed Kaya : Afterwards, since there were always people with me, I couldn’t remember the slipper.
Presiding Judge : Afterward you found the slipper. Whom did you inform to ask whose slipper it was?
Muhammed Kaya : I called Baran; her brother didn’t answer. I called my own brother, Berat Kaya. I said I found a slipper on the road. I’ll send you a photo; show it to my aunt-in-law. If it’s hers, it’s hers; if not, it isn’t. I hung up; Baran called. Narin’s brother. Narin’s brother called. Yes. Baran called; I told him the same thing I had told my brother. Then I sent the photo. Two or three minutes later Baran called. There were screams in the background. He said the slipper is hers. “Where are you? Come to the place by the woods.” Okay. We went there. The commander came. We hadn’t given any statement yet. “Who found it?” “I did.” “Give your number and don’t go anywhere.” Okay. My uncle Arif came over the slipper. He said, “I will take the slipper.” Meaning it is her slipper. We then went to the station, in order to give statements anyway.
Presiding Judge : So how was it understood that the slipper did not belong to Baran’s sister? Were you at the station at that time?
Muhammed Kaya : I was at the station. I went to the station around 10:00–10:30. They released me at 6 p.m. the next day.
Presiding Judge : During that time, that the slipper was not the girl’s slipper—that it was not Narin’s slipper. You don’t know who said that and so on?
Muhammed Kaya : There was a Petty Officer Bayram.
Presiding Judge : Not Baran. That it was not Narin’s slipper.
Muhammed Kaya : There was Petty Officer Bayram. He came into the room and said, “Didn’t you notice at all? Would an eight-year-old girl wear size 25 slippers?” I told that commander, “I don’t have a daughter. I have never bought slippers for a little girl. How would I know whether the size is 25 or 31?”
Presiding Judge : So it was understood in that way that the slipper in question did not belong to the girl, by the size, is that right?
Muhammed Kaya : That is what he said. That is what he told me.
Presiding Judge : The commander said so. The commander said it.
Presiding Judge : Yes. Let us avoid repetition. Do not go into it. I believe I asked quite detailed questions, but if you did not like my questions, of course you may ask yours. Counsel for Mr. Arif—no questions. Any questions from our Diyarbakır Bar Association attorneys? No. Any from the Ministry of Family? No. From the defendants—Ms. Yüksel, what will you say?
Presiding Judge : (Repeats Yüksel’s question) I will summarize. Very well. When the slipper came to me and they said it was a red slipper, I said, yes, it could be my daughter’s slipper. I screamed about this. However, at first nothing about the size of the slipper occurred to us. Then we checked, she said, and that’s the situation. Please, Mr. Prosecutor. Our Prosecutor has a question.
Trial Prosecutor
Trial Prosecutor : I will ask it in a different way without repetition. Let me start from a different angle, then. Around what time did you return from Derik?
Muhammed Kaya : My cousin got a call at 08:30–08:45. I mean, we came from Derik at 180–220.
Trial Prosecutor : The distance is about an hour anyway.
Muhammed Kaya : We reached the village in about forty-five minutes to an hour. That is… Half past… It was around nine-thirty or ten when we were in the village.
Trial Prosecutor : Around ten you are recorded as being in the area of Dicle University.
Muhammed Kaya : Correct. I was talking. Another question came up there. It interrupted. It interrupted. Someone called Uncle Emir—our worker. A watchman. Ali Rıza Güran. A worker of my mother’s uncle. A watchman. He has a wire. He says he has jinn. Believing him, he whispers to the wire. He moves the wire. We asked if he could find her. He said he could. He said he was getting a signal. He directed the wire toward the Dicle University faculty side. We went in three cars that way.
Trial Prosecutor : Is there a tea garden operated by someone from the Güran family there?
Muhammed Kaya : At… Beylerbeyi Garden. Upstream of the new bridge. Uncle Emir the watchman is already there.
Trial Prosecutor : I understand. You do not have to answer this question, but did Salim Güran come there that evening?
Muhammed Kaya : No.
Trial Prosecutor : He did not come.
Muhammed Kaya : No.
Trial Prosecutor : In your statement you have such a sentence about Salim Güran: that he sent Devran and someone to a village with a white Egea, sent his son.
Muhammed Kaya : That was with the commanders, at the bridge.
Trial Prosecutor : You say on August 22 he sent Devran and an unknown person to an unknown village.
Muhammed Kaya : On August 22, together with the commanders, together with the commander, someone was sent. My uncle also sent his son. That person next to him was either someone from intelligence or a commander. I do not know who it was. He was sent in that manner. He also gave me the key. Of my uncle Arif’s car. That way I became the driver as well.
Trial Prosecutor : Madam President, to you: if that slipper had been there as first visible, everyone would have seen it. On the contrary, I think that slipper was never placed there. That slipper was always with you. Since you found this out—you do not have to answer this—why didn’t you go to the gendarmerie? There is gendarmerie at every step there anyway. Showing this to Yüksel, getting an opinion on whether the slipper belonged to her, and throwing it away—was that within your or your brother’s remit?
Muhammed Kaya : No, not at all. I found the slipper. The gendarmerie are on the road anyway. There was no gendarmerie there, you would throw it away directly. Right there—when I went there, there was no gendarmerie on the road. Everyone was at the house. As I said, there was a very big commotion there. They had all cars moved from there as well. By showing it to my aunt-in-law—anyway the gendarmes were there. It is forensic.
Presiding Judge : Very well. Thank you, Mr. Muhammed. We move to questions from defense counsel.
Defense Counsel for Enes Güran
Law. Mustafa Demir
Law. Mustafa Demir : You said, “After the slipper was found, they took me away,” but you did not fully describe that part. We are curious about that as well. What did you experience? What happened?
Muhammed Kaya : I found the slipper. They took me to the station at around half past ten. Me, Osman Güran, Uğurcan Güran, Hüseyin Güran, Barış Güran’s son. They put each of us in a separate room. A man from intelligence came in and called me a murderer.
Presiding Judge : I am intervening at this point. The addressee of these questions is a criminal complaint to the Diyarbakır Chief Public Prosecutor’s Office. As it will add nothing to the file, I am skipping this question. Explain it, but I have skipped this question.
Law. Mustafa Demir : The indictment starts with this, you know.
Presiding Judge : We have obtained what we needed. We have heard our witness.
Law. Mustafa Demir : Shall I explain what I asked anyway?
Presiding Judge : Briefly, of course.
Law. Mustafa Demir : The indictment starts with the slipper. After the slipper, was the family targeted, was there suspicion, and here he himself alleges he was called a murderer. There are also allegations that, for example, although the girl was missing, the family thought she was dead. These allegations are connected with this. That is why I asked.
Presiding Judge : File a criminal complaint regarding this alleged torture. If you have such an allegation.
Muhammed Kaya : They beat me for nine hours. Twenty intelligence officers constantly. Every hour they came and I was beaten.
Presiding Judge : You may file a criminal complaint on this matter, friends. Do you understand? It is your legal right. You have the right to file a criminal complaint with the Diyarbakır Chief Public Prosecutor’s Office. Very well.
Law. Mustafa Demir : What was said was left incomplete. If he could continue explaining.
Muhammed Kaya : They dragged me and called me murderer. “How did you kill? Did you strangle her? Did you crush her head with a stone?” They used such words. Then a commander came. “You are not the murderer. I’ll cut off my member and make myself a woman.” Things like that were said. I said I was in Derik. “No, you were not in Derik. You are the murderer.” They used sentences like that.
Law. Mustafa Demir : Until what time did the night searches continue? On the first night, that is on the 21st, until what time did the searches continue? Until what time were you awake?
Muhammed Kaya : I did not stop until the time I found the slipper. Let me put it that way.
Law. Mustafa Demir : You had not slept at all?
Muhammed Kaya : I had slept four hours the previous day. In total I had about 36 hours awake.
Law. Mustafa Demir : And the scuffle part was, I think, left incomplete, not fully understood. You said there was a commotion. What exactly happened in that commotion? You found the slipper, came back, forgot it. What happened that you forgot?
Presiding Judge : He explained that well. Go on, explain it once more. I understood it quite well.
Muhammed Kaya : I found the slipper. I came to the village. There was a commotion there. As I said, it was quite crowded. New cars had arrived. Intelligence—I did not know at the time, of course. At that moment I ran straight from the car to the house. The commander was shouting at my mother and so on. “Commander, what happened?” “There is a meeting.” I said, “Do not shout at anyone. I will get whoever is in the house out.” He said okay. Together with my mother we got everyone out. My mother’s sister has diabetes. She cannot walk on her own. My aunt Azize and my mother helped her. She reached the stairs. I held her legs and carried her down. Then I said, let me take you to Hüseyin Güran’s house. The guests were going there as well. “No, take me to Hüseyin’s house,” she said. Okay, I said. I put her in the car. We went to Hüseyin’s house. I took her out of the car. Osman Güran came. “I have no cigarettes. Let’s go to Çarıklı.” Okay, I said. We went to Çarıklı. He bought his cigarettes and so on. My cousin Uğurcan called. “I’m on the hill at the livestock market. Come get some air.” Osman and Hüseyin were with me. “No problem, let them go,” he said. Okay. We went there. We sat for 15–20 minutes. Then Osman said, I will go to the village. There were already two cars. Okay, I said. He got into the car and noticed the slipper. He noticed the slipper. He said, whose slipper is this? I said, I found it on the road. I forgot it. I brought it to the village to show it. I forgot. Since you showed it, it came to mind. I immediately sent a photo to Baran. Then to the bridge area. Intelligence—I don’t know them.
Presiding Judge : Alright, alright. You told the rest. In fact you omitted one thing. You omitted one thing. You told the commander, “I don’t like such things, I’ll handle it.” You forgot to mention that. I meant it in a good way. I said something favorable to you.
Presiding Judge : Okay, okay, I understand.
Muhammed Kaya : He immediately attacked those clustered houses there. He shouted at the Gypsies, “Where is the girl?” That.
Presiding Judge : Okay, okay, that’s not what we mean.
Law. Mustafa Demir : Which vehicle was with you?
Muhammed Kaya : The Egea. It was my uncle Arif’s car.
Law. Mustafa Demir : And you were taken into custody regarding this vehicle. Was the first examination made then?
Muhammed Kaya : Yes.
Law. Mustafa Demir : I understand. Thank you.
Presiding Judge : Thank you. Any other questions? Go ahead, Mr. Onur, counsel for Salim.
Defense counsel for Salim Güran
Law. Onur Akdağ
Law. Onur Akdağ : Did your uncle Salim Güran direct the search activities for you? Specifically, regarding the matter of the Gypsies, was it Salim Güran who directed you to the place where the Gypsies were?
Muhammed Kaya : No, absolutely not. I only found the slipper. I sent the slipper to Baran and the others; after your aunt-in-law confirmed it was hers, they came that way.
Presiding Judge : I have already asked this as well.
Law. Onur Akdağ : That night, could Salim Güran have gone alone to Eğertutmaz creek—on the night of the incident—could Salim Güran have gone alone to Eğertutmaz creek in his own vehicle?
Muhammed Kaya : I did not see it, so I say no.