Testimony of Maşşallah Güran
Presiding Judge
Presiding Judge : Then under oath. Yes, can everyone please stand? Yes. Ms. Maşallah. Do you swear upon your honor and conscience to tell the truth?
Maşşallah Güran : I do.
Presiding Judge : Look, perjury is a crime. If, at the end of this trial, we reach such a conclusion, we will file a criminal complaint against you. You are currently in custody, correct? For another offense. Therefore, you also have the right not to answer our questions. If you are asked self-incriminating questions, you have the right not to answer them. I will in any case intervene on this matter. Our intention is to take your statements in a comfortable manner, alright? To remain calm.
Presiding Judge : First let me talk about this. The fight among the women. What was this quarrel about? Why did you have such a fight? One moment, a murmur has started. I can’t hear myself. There is also a serious murmur by the door. We can bring those by the door over to this side.
Maşşallah Güran : On the day Narin was found, Commander Hülya came. We were all crying. We had all gathered. Commander Hülya came. She informed Yüksel. Yüksel said, “Commander, you had promised me—where is my Narin? You were going to bring my Narin.” At that moment she screamed and fainted. She fainted into my arms. When she fell into my arms, we, together with Commander Hülya and the team, put her in the ambulance. After we did, I returned to my place. Forgive me, I’m a bit…
Presiding Judge : However you feel comfortable.
Maşşallah Güran : I sat down. I apologize to all of you. I said, “Narin, which bastards did this to you? Which bastards did this to you? May God curse them.” I apologize. Then someone came—Yüksel’s sister, I forgot her name. She came. “If you had told, this wouldn’t have happened,” she said. “We don’t know anything.” I said, “If you know, then you tell.” Then she spoke about it again. I didn’t speak. My daughter stood up. “If you know, tell. We don’t know anything.” At that moment my daughter fainted. I was tending to my daughter. I took my daughter. I took both my daughters and went home.
Presiding Judge : Which daughter?
Maşşallah Güran : Birsen and Melike.
Presiding Judge : It is said you shouted, “Everyone knows everything. Don’t make me talk.”
Maşşallah Güran : Absolutely not. I didn’t use such words. I do not accept that.
Presiding Judge : Did you say, “I don’t know anything. If I knew, I would tell”?
Maşşallah Güran : …
Presiding Judge : No, no. You just said, “I don’t know anything. If I knew—if you know, you tell.”
Maşşallah Güran : I said it to Yaser, to him. I said, “If you know, you tell. We don’t know anything.”
Presiding Judge : It is said the men tried to cover your mouths. Did anyone try to cover your mouth?
Maşşallah Güran : Absolutely not. Nothing like that.
Presiding Judge : Did anyone try to cover your daughter’s mouth?
Maşşallah Güran : No. They were on the other side anyway. Maybe on their side. I took my daughter. I took my other daughter, my younger daughter. I took her as well and went home.
Presiding Judge : You went home. Now then, there is also this statement by Birsen: “Did we do it, so why are you coming at us?” Why did she use such wording, do you know?
Maşşallah Güran : I didn’t see that.
Presiding Judge : You didn’t hear anything like that?
Maşşallah Güran : I didn’t hear it.
Presiding Judge : And Ms. Maşallah. Let me ask the question like this. I will ask the question everyone wants to ask. After these events—that is, after Narin disappeared—it could be about Narin, or Salim, or Yüksel, or Enes, or Nevzat. Did anyone direct you? Did they tell you to give false statements in this manner?
Maşşallah Güran : No, absolutely not.
Presiding Judge : Because you say Narin came to our house. You say you heard it from your daughter.
Maşşallah Güran : Narin comes around two o’clock. She asks for my daughters. At that time my daughters go to the mosque. Before noon I take my daughters and leave them at my mother’s. Then I come home. My daughters stay there. After that Narin comes. Around two o’clock. My daughter opens the door. She didn’t stay two minutes. She said, “Where are Hatice and Fatma?” I said, “At their grandmother’s.” My daughter didn’t know they went to the mosque. Then she told me. I said, “We left them at the mosque.” She said, “Alright, Narin came.” She said, “Alright.” Then the reason we said 05:40 is that Mina came. When Mina came—when Narin disappeared—I completely forgot Mina. I kept saying Narin. There was no ulterior motive, sir.
Presiding Judge : So when you said Narin came at 05:40, actually it was Mina who came. Mina came.
Maşşallah Güran : The confusion came from that.
Presiding Judge : And this is your statement? The date you gave your statement is 29.08. So about 7–8 days after the incident.
Maşşallah Güran : As I’m saying—Narin was on my mind the whole time. Narin was constantly with us.
Presiding Judge : I understand.
Maşşallah Güran : She was like my child too.
Presiding Judge : So Narin came in the morning. Around two o’clock. Yes. Now, there is that well-known video. The one that caused serious debate on social media. Narin comes and then runs off. At that time—in between—did Narin come to your house?
Maşşallah Güran : At what time, sir?
Presiding Judge : Two, two…
Maşşallah Güran : Yes, yes, she goes to the mosque.
Presiding Judge : So at that time Narin comes to your house. She asks for your daughters. Because your daughters aren’t at home, she runs to the mosque. On social media there were reports like “What did Narin see that made her run?” Before that video, she came to your house, asked for your daughters, and when she didn’t see them, we presume she went to the mosque to catch up with them.
Maşşallah Güran : Because the three of them had agreed the night before.
Presiding Judge : Around seventeen, seventeen-thirty Narin did not come. On the day of the incident, you only saw Narin at two o’clock.
Maşşallah Güran : I didn’t see her. My daughter opened the door.
Presiding Judge : You said she opened the door at seventeen-forty. Mina came.
Maşşallah Güran : Mina came.
Presiding Judge : When you said you heard from Birsen that you saw Narin, in fact you meant the morning time, but it got recorded as around seventeen-thirty.
Maşşallah Güran : When she disappeared, the confusion came from that. There was no ulterior motive. We wanted her found quickly.
Presiding Judge : I understand. So giving a false statement in this way to steer someone—by Salim—
Maşşallah Güran : No.
Presiding Judge : Because there is an allegation in the indictment. The prosecution alleges this. It says Salim arranged this. Because Birsen has a statement—was it Birsen?—rather, Melike has a statement: Salim came to us and said, “Say she came at 17:40.” Given that, is it possible Birsen made such a statement?
Maşşallah Güran : There is no such thing, Your Honor.
Presiding Judge : That day—
Maşşallah Güran : Birsen and Salim—after Narin disappeared—talked about the timing. He told me about it—he explained it to me at home. “Whichever time she came, tell our state that time so she can be found quickly.” That’s what he said.
Presiding Judge : But your daughter has a statement like “Say 17:40.” Do you have any knowledge about that?
Maşşallah Güran : I have no knowledge of that.
Presiding Judge : During these events, did Salim ever come to your house?
Maşşallah Güran : Salim came. He came at six, six-thirty. He kissed his uncle’s hand. He kissed his aunt’s hand. His aunt had just arrived. Since we had come from Mersin, he asked about us, too. At that moment, I went upstairs. When I came back, he had left. He didn’t stay at our door for five minutes.
Presiding Judge : When you say his uncle—do you mean your father-in-law?
Maşşallah Güran : No, my husband, Hüseyin Güran.
Presiding Judge : Hüseyin Güran, pardon. Hüseyin Güran is Salim’s uncle.
Maşşallah Güran : Yes, he is his uncle.
Presiding Judge : Where had you come from on the day of the incident?
Maşşallah Güran : We had come from Mersin.
Presiding Judge : You had come from Mersin. He came at six to kiss his uncle’s hand.
Maşşallah Güran : Yes, he came. His uncle was at the door, as was his aunt.
Presiding Judge : Do you remember the exact time?
Maşşallah Güran : I don’t remember exactly. It was around six, six-thirty.
Presiding Judge : Did you speak with Salim at that time? Did you see him?
Maşşallah Güran : I saw him. He was with his son.
Presiding Judge : As of that date, Narin had disappeared. According to one claim, Salim killed Narin. Did you sense anything suspicious about Salim?
Maşşallah Güran : No, he was as he is every day.
Presiding Judge : Normal, as he is every day?
Maşşallah Güran : Normal—as he is when he comes.
Presiding Judge : No panic? No excitement?
Maşşallah Güran : I didn’t see any.
Presiding Judge : So, as far as you saw, you didn’t suspect anything?
Maşşallah Güran : No. In any case, at that moment I went upstairs, and when I came back, he was gone.
Presiding Judge : Do you know Nevzat?
Maşşallah Güran : Of course, he is our neighbor.
Presiding Judge : He is your neighbor. Yes. How were relations, generally, between Nevzat and the Güran family? Or between him and Salim Güran?
Maşşallah Güran : Generally it was good. Up to this day it was good for us. But from now on, for us, it isn’t good.
Presiding Judge : Why?
Maşşallah Güran : Suspicion keeps going to him. It goes to Salim, too.
Presiding Judge : It goes to Salim. It goes to Yüksel. It goes to Enes. Suspicion is now split into four. It goes to all four.
Maşşallah Güran : Then if it’s split into four, bring out that station camera. Bring it out.
Presiding Judge : God willing. God willing.
Maşşallah Güran : God willing, if it comes out, everything will be revealed.
Presiding Judge : God willing.
Maşşallah Güran : Even if it’s one of us, may God curse them, whoever it is.
Presiding Judge : It will come out. We will request the camera, too. You did not witness any problem between Nevzat and Salim up to now. But after this incident, because you suspect Nevzat, you’ve cut him off.
Maşşallah Güran : I learned these things at the station anyway.
Presiding Judge : After that, you cut off Nevzat. But you have no prior enmity with Nevzat?
Maşşallah Güran : No.
Presiding Judge : Setting aside your suspicions—clearing yourself of them—I ask you this: Is it possible Nevzat could kill someone?
Maşşallah Güran : Up to now, no.
Presiding Judge : Aha. Up to now, no. Is it possible Salim could kill someone?
Maşşallah Güran : Not for him either. To this day, with so many children, not a single slap did we take from him.
Presiding Judge : Then is it possible Yüksel killed her daughter, or Enes killed his sister?
Maşşallah Güran : I don’t believe it.
Presiding Judge : I don’t believe it. Who is Delal Kaya?
Maşşallah Güran : She is my niece.
Presiding Judge : And Mahide Kaya. Did they come to the house?
Maşşallah Güran : Yes.
Presiding Judge : What time did they come?
Maşşallah Güran : I don’t know the exact time. They had come to the village. They called me. I had asked for it. I said, bring me socks.
Presiding Judge : They sell socks, right?
Maşşallah Güran : They don’t sell. A driver had brought them. I said, bring them to me. They brought me the socks; I bought them and they left. I bought socks. They left for home.
Presiding Judge : Did they come before Salim arrived or after?
Maşşallah Güran : I don’t exactly remember.
Presiding Judge : Because Mahide says in her statement that she saw you around 18:00, that’s why we ask. Was the time Mahide came to you before or after Salim came?
Maşşallah Güran : I don’t remember. I don’t remember.
Presiding Judge : Alright. Now this—where is your house?
Maşşallah Güran : In the village.
Presiding Judge : Where in the village?
Maşşallah Güran : A bit outside the village. Behind the school.
Presiding Judge : On a hill?
Maşşallah Güran : Not on the hill. Just below the hill.
Presiding Judge : So it’s not in a place where you can easily have a full view of your surroundings when you look around, correct?
Maşşallah Güran : My house is the only one there.
Presiding Judge : The only one.
Maşşallah Güran : Behind the school.
Presiding Judge : Your house, that is. Where is Arif’s house? How far is it?
Maşşallah Güran : Since it’s on a hill, a drop-off, I can’t say how far.
Presiding Judge : Let me put it this way. From your house, can you see Arif’s house?
Maşşallah Güran : From below?
Presiding Judge : From your house, Arif’s house.
Maşşallah Güran : I can see the tops of the structures.
Presiding Judge : Can you see the garden or the barn? Because Yüksel first comes to you, right? Asking where Narin is.
Maşşallah Güran : Yes, she calls from the hill.
Presiding Judge : She calls out, “Where is Narin,” right? Is that because she went to Qur’an class together with your daughter? In other words, at the time Narin was killed, between 15:15 and 15:30, did you observe any activity at Yüksel’s house?
Maşşallah Güran : I did not. I didn’t leave the house at all.
Presiding Judge : You didn’t go out at all. Can you see Nevzat’s house?
Maşşallah Güran : I cannot see his house.
Presiding Judge : So you didn’t see or hear any vehicle, a red car, a white car, any such activity?
Maşşallah Güran : I didn’t hear. If it passed at my door, I would surely hear it. I didn’t see it pass at my door either.
Trial Prosecutor : You said Narin came at 2, correct, Ms. Maşşallah? What time did Mine come?
Maşşallah Güran : It was 17:40.
Trial Prosecutor : You say Mine came around 17:40. Because you mixed it up.
Maşşallah Güran : Yes.
Presiding Judge : I understand.
Maşşallah Güran : We mixed that up.
Trial Prosecutor : What time did Yusuf Kaya come? He is your nephew as well, right, Yusuf Kaya?
Maşşallah Güran : He is my nephew. It was around one-thirty. He and my son left the house at around two, two-thirty.
Trial Prosecutor : Why did Yusuf come to the house?
Maşşallah Güran : He brought us bread. We were out of bread. My husband wasn’t home either. We called; he brought us bread.
Trial Prosecutor : Did you have breakfast late?
Maşşallah Güran : Yes.
Trial Prosecutor : So did you have breakfast around one-thirty?
Maşşallah Güran : We had it together when my daughters came.
Trial Prosecutor : Around one-thirty.
Maşşallah Güran : Later than that, late.
Trial Prosecutor : In your statement you say Yusuf Kaya came around 15:00. Around three.
Maşşallah Güran : No, no, not around three.
Trial Prosecutor : What time then?
Maşşallah Güran : No, I kept saying—
Trial Prosecutor : Skip that Yusuf business. What time did you have breakfast? It’s actually a very simple question.
Maşşallah Güran : We had breakfast around three, three-thirty.
Trial Prosecutor : Right? Yes. You gave your statement that way.
Maşşallah Güran : Yes.
Trial Prosecutor : You say Yusuf Kaya brought bread around three. And Maide Kaya—she is your husband’s niece, right? You are Maide’s aunt?
Trial Prosecutor : Yes, her aunt.
Trial Prosecutor : And Zelal?
Maşşallah Güran : I am her maternal aunt as well.
Trial Prosecutor : I see. Because of this sock matter, they say they came to you around 17:00. They say they left the house at 17:00—pardon, 17:30–17:40. The children say they were at your house around that time.
Maşşallah Güran : Fine, they brought socks. Exactly. But I cannot say what time it was.
Trial Prosecutor : Maide says that while we were at the house, only Yusuf knocked on the door. Yusuf—uh. I’m telling you the statements. Please answer. Around 17–18 only Yusuf came, she says. So she says Yusuf came at 17:00.
Maşşallah Güran : Prosecutor, my nephew Yusuf is one person; my husband’s grandson is another. Yusufcan Güran is another. There are two Yusufs.
Trial Prosecutor : Two Yusufs. Yes. They say the Yusuf who came around 18:00 was Yusuf Kaya. Maide is referring to Yusuf Kaya.
Maşşallah Güran : Maide did not see Yusuf Kaya.
Trial Prosecutor : Understood. She didn’t see him.
Maşşallah Güran : They took my son; they went to the coffeehouse together.
Trial Prosecutor : Alright. One more thing, Your Honor—there are also two phone records I wanted to show, if you agree.
Presiding Judge : Of course.
Trial Prosecutor : This is Birsen, in her first statement. Yes. In her first statement about two o’clock, she says, “My mother was speaking with Sister Zerrin.” Around fourteen.
Maşşallah Güran : I spoke with her too.
Presiding Judge : Could you hand the microphone to the Prosecutor?
Trial Prosecutor : Around two o’clock—with Sister Zerrin— I have the call detail records. Around 13:32, registered to the name Taner Mehmetoğlu.
Maşşallah Güran : She is also my sister-in-law.
Trial Prosecutor : Which Zerrin is this? Your Sister Zerrin?
Maşşallah Güran : She was my husband’s daughter.
Trial Prosecutor : There is no number saved as Zerrin?
Maşşallah Güran : I don’t know numbers.
Trial Prosecutor : I see. Around 14:00—this sister-in-law of yours? Is Taner Mehmetoğlu your sister-in-law?
Maşşallah Güran : Because it’s registered in his name.
Trial Prosecutor : Ah, so that’s the one. Yes. Alright. So there is no Zerrin listed here, correct? Not among these numbers right now?
Maşşallah Güran : I don’t know numbers.
Trial Prosecutor : You know this is your sister-in-law though. Look, let me say something. Listen to me. In your call records there is only 13:32. You have no call at 14:00. Do you understand me? So there is no Zerrin. I am asking you only about the 13:30 I have in hand.
Maşşallah Güran : Not Zerrin. Look, I also spoke with Zerrin. I don’t know at what time. Fatma is my sister-in-law.
Trial Prosecutor : I’m telling you about her daughter. Alright. You say you don’t know.
Maşşallah Güran : Fine. She may have mixed it up too.
Trial Prosecutor : Alright. She gives very exact times like 17:40. That’s why I ask. Birsen says, “She was speaking with Aunt Hatice around 17:40; that’s why I mixed up the two o’clock.”
Maşşallah Güran : After Narin disappeared, we all mixed things up.
Trial Prosecutor : Aunt Hatice. Yes. Look at these numbers too. You don’t know them?
Maşşallah Güran : I don’t know numbers. I cannot read or write.
Trial Prosecutor : How did you immediately recognize your sister-in-law then?
Maşşallah Güran : Because you said it?
Trial Prosecutor : Alright.
Maşşallah Güran : I say it because I speak with my sisters-in-law.
Trial Prosecutor : But you didn’t identify it by seeing the number?
Maşşallah Güran : But I don’t know numbers.
Trial Prosecutor : You don’t know the numbers?
Maşşallah Güran : I don’t.
Presiding Judge : Yes. I am illiterate. I cannot recognize the numbers you showed me. However, on the day of the incident whom did you speak with?
Maşşallah Güran : My sisters-in-law. Two sisters-in-law. And we spoke with our girl Zerrin.
Presiding Judge : We spoke with our girl Zerrin.
Law. Metin Arkaş : Now, you say Narin came to the house twice.
Presiding Judge : Is that microphone not working? Is there sound? Could you check, Mr. Mehmet? Is the battery dead? Try turning it off and on. If that doesn’t fix it, it’s broken. Is it okay now?
Diyarbakır Bar Association
Law. Metin Arkaş
Law. Metin Arkaş : Now, your statements that Narin came to the house twice that day later turn into she came once. You also say you were on the phone with your sister-in-law; when your daughters commented about the time, then you realized the correct version and say Narin actually came to the house at two o’clock. However, these are independent of the time of your phone call. According to your first statement, and even your other statements, first around two o’clock the doorbell rang. After it rang, my daughter opened the door; I was busy. I asked Birsen or my other daughter who had come, and they said Narin came. Toward evening around five the doorbell rang again and I again did not look at the left door. My daughters looked. When I asked my daughters who had come, they again said Narin came.
Presiding Judge : One moment, let our counsel finish.
Law. Metin Arkaş : This is something included in your signed statement. So rather than you mixing up the time, there is a situation where you asked immediately after the door closed on two occasions and received the answer Narin both times. Why did you give a statement to this effect?
Maşşallah Güran : That was confusion. After Narin disappeared, Mina came at that time. I repeat, Mina came. Since after Narin disappeared she was constantly on my mind, I kept saying Narin.
Law. Metin Arkaş : Didn’t your daughter actually say “Mina came” the moment the door closed?
Maşşallah Güran : They told me Mina came. She said that. Mina came slipped my mind. After Narin disappeared, Mina completely left my mind. Completely. Narin is all that’s on my mind.
Law. Metin Arkaş : When Salim came to your house that day, did he make a phone call at the house? Did you see?
Maşşallah Güran : I wasn’t outside at that time. I went upstairs. He came and kissed his uncle’s hand, kissed his aunt’s hand. He asked after us. We had come from Mersin. He was with his son at that time. I went upstairs; when I came back he was gone. He didn’t even stand at the door for five minutes.
Law. Metin Arkaş : After Narin disappeared, when the search began, did Enes come to your house to ask about Narin?
Maşşallah Güran : No. Yüksel called me.
Law. Metin Arkaş : Enes did not come?
Maşşallah Güran : No, I did not see Enes. I did not see him.
Law. Metin Arkaş : When Yüksel called out to you from the hill, you responded along the lines of “Are you only now searching for your daughter at this hour?”—is that correct?
Maşşallah Güran : My husband scolded her.
Law. Metin Arkaş : Normally, around what time do Narin and the other children go home? Your daughter is also little. When she plays, around what time does she go home?
Maşşallah Güran : If she gets permission from her mother, she goes home even late. Since she’s at my house, her mother is at ease. If I send my daughters to her house, I’m at ease as well. We send our children to each other.
Law. Metin Arkaş : Did your children come often?
Maşşallah Güran : Yes. She would also frequently leave them with me and go to Batman. Even if there was a mourning, she would go. They would leave them with me.
Law. Metin Arkaş : So when her mother sent Narin to you, would she ever confirm whether she arrived? Would she call you? “Did she come?” Or when you sent your children?
Maşşallah Güran : No, if she was with me, she was at ease. She knew. She knew I wouldn’t let her go. But that day Narin came to us. When she came, it was to ask about my daughters. She went to the mosque. I did not see Narin after that.
Law. Metin Arkaş : After Narin disappeared, did you observe any carpet washing, blanket washing, a general cleaning at Yüksel’s house?
Maşşallah Güran : No.
Law. Metin Arkaş : No.
Presiding Judge : Thank you.
Law. Aydın Özdemir
Law. Aydın Özdemir : Are you saying that the argument among the women that day never happened, or are you saying you didn’t hear it? Did you not witness such an argument, or did it not happen at all?
Presiding Judge : She said it did happen.
Maşşallah Güran : I said it happened.
Presiding Judge : She said it happened. There was an argument.
Law. Aydın Özdemir : Did Nesrin Güran utter any insult in your presence?
Maşşallah Güran : No.
Law. Aydın Özdemir : Did she turn somewhere and say something, insult someone?
Maşşallah Güran : Nesrin Güran would not put such words in her mouth.
Law. Aydın Özdemir : She would not. Alright. Did your daughter Birsen ever say to you, “Salim told us to say we saw the girl at 17:40, to say we saw Narin, otherwise there will be trouble,” anything like that?
Maşşallah Güran : No.
Law. Aydın Özdemir : You were held in custody. How many days were you together?
Maşşallah Güran : The custody period—
Law. Aydın Özdemir : Within the family.
Maşşallah Güran : That’s separate—this is my 56th day. I am in prison.
Law. Aydın Özdemir : What I’m asking about your daughter is this. During that period in custody and the prior period—your own biological daughter.
Maşşallah Güran : Yes.
Law. Aydın Özdemir : She has a clear statement: “Salim told us to say we saw her at 17:40, otherwise there will be trouble.” You have been arrested over the time issue as well. That is the reason for your arrest. Did you never have such a conversation?
Maşşallah Güran : With Salim?
Presiding Judge : I asked this question as well. I asked this question as well.
Presiding Judge : I asked it very clearly. Very clearly indeed.
Law. Aydın Özdemir : My last question: Did you ever hear in the village about a problem between Arif and Nevzat?
Maşşallah Güran : I did not hear. I was not at home.
Law. Aydın Özdemir : How many years have you been living there in the village?
Maşşallah Güran : Since I was born.
Law. Aydın Özdemir : Since birth. If there had been a feud or a problem, wouldn’t a closed community hear of it? You would.
Maşşallah Güran : I would.
Law. Aydın Özdemir : Thank you.
Presiding Judge : Thank you. Now, Ms. Maşşallah. When Narin came to your house to play with your daughters, would Arif or Yüksel call you to ask if she had come?
Maşşallah Güran : Not by phone. Is that what you mean?
Law. Aydın Özdemir : No, no—in general. A week before, a month before—routinely. Since she would routinely come, I also send my child to the neighbor across the way. You send yours too. I was curious how Arif confirmed that Narin had come to your house.
Maşşallah Güran : She would come with her mother’s permission.
Presiding Judge : When she came, would Yüksel keep track of her daughter?
Maşşallah Güran : Of course, Yüksel would keep track of her daughter.
Presiding Judge : How would she keep track?
Maşşallah Güran : Wouldn’t a mother keep track of her child?
Presiding Judge : When it got dark in the evening, how would Narin return home?
Maşşallah Güran : When it was dark, either my son would take her or my two daughters would take her.
Presiding Judge : I see. So they would take her and she would go home. They would take her like that.
Maşşallah Güran : Yes.
Defense Counsels for Enes Güran
Law. Mahir Akbilek
Law. Mahir Akbilek : Ms. Maşallah, do you remember on which day and at what times you first saw Enes during the search and sweep activities?
Maşşallah Güran : On the day Narin disappeared?
Law. Mahir Akbilek : Yes, take that as the basis. After that, did you see him on the 21st or the 22nd? If on the 21st, within what time frame; if on the 22nd, when did you first see him?
Maşşallah Güran : On the 20th, we had just come from Mersin. We had gone for my daughter’s enrollment. With that travel fatigue and then this incident on the 21st, I did not see Enes. I did not see him during the day. I saw Enes when he called me; I saw him then. I saw only Yüksel. He may have been up above, but I saw only Yüksel. Because there were trees between us. I did not see him.
Law. Mahir Akbilek : When?
Maşşallah Güran : When Yüksel called me— it was seven, seven-thirty.
Law. Mahir Akbilek : No, try to recall when you saw Enes.
Maşşallah Güran : You mean at the time she disappeared. At the time Narin disappeared.
Law. Mahir Akbilek : Go back from today to the day Narin was killed; try to recall the first moment you saw Enes— face to face, as we are seeing now.
Maşşallah Güran : I saw him next to the school. I saw him while we were searching for Narin.
Law. Mahir Akbilek : Which day was that?
Maşşallah Güran : The first day she disappeared.
Law. Mahir Akbilek : Alright. Did you see Enes’s face and body?
Maşşallah Güran : Of course.
Law. Mahir Akbilek : Did you notice any injury, bruise, bleeding on his face?
Maşşallah Güran : I did not.
Law. Mahir Akbilek : Thank you.
Presiding Judge : Thank you. Yes, Ms. Maşşallah. Thank you. There is a question, please. I thought we were done.
Law. Mustafa Demir : You say you spoke on the phone that day. Was it only with your own phone, or…?
Maşşallah Güran : No. I also spoke with my daughter’s phone. I will speak.
Law. Mustafa Demir : Then could this be the reason the call record cannot be understood there? You spoke using your daughter’s phone that day, correct?
Maşşallah Güran : Yes. I spoke with my daughter’s phone. I spoke with my own phone. I spoke with my son’s phone.
Law. Mustafa Demir : You said you had come from Mersin the day before.
Maşşallah Güran : Yes.
Law. Mustafa Demir : Do you remember how many children came and went to your home that day? How frequently did they come?
Maşşallah Güran : Normally, children always come to my home. I love children. I love children.
Law. Mustafa Demir : I am asking specifically about that day, for this reason: given your house’s location, the road apparently doesn’t go beyond your house. That is, when you go along the road passing in front of the school, you arrive at your house.
Maşşallah Güran : Yes.
Law. Mustafa Demir : The camera shows quite a bit of activity— Yes.
Maşşallah Güran : Children come to my home.
Law. Mustafa Demir : Was there very frequent coming and going of children to your house that day? That’s what I’m asking.
Maşşallah Güran : There was.
Law. Mustafa Demir : Yes, thank you.
Law. Muhammed Fatih Demir
Law. Muhammed Fatih Demir : Do you know Gazal Bahtiyar?
Maşşallah Güran : Yes. She is my neighbor.
Law. Muhammed Fatih Demir : How are relations between you? How is your communication with her?
Maşşallah Güran : Well—
Law. Muhammed Fatih Demir : Before the incident.
Maşşallah Güran : Before the incident it was good. She would come and go. I gave her my garden. She would plant my garden. Our relations were good.
Law. Muhammed Fatih Demir : Where did Narin and your children generally play in the village? In front of the school? Near the mosque?
Maşşallah Güran : They would be in front of the school as well. They would go to the front of the mosque, too. They would also go to my mother’s. Our children could go anywhere comfortably in our village.
Law. Muhammed Fatih Demir : In the last three months before the incident, is it possible that Gazal Bahtiyar or Nevzat Bahtiyar might not have seen Narin?
Maşşallah Güran : On that day?
Law. Muhammed Fatih Demir : In the month or two or three prior— it doesn’t matter.
Maşşallah Güran : How would they not see her? If they went down, they would see her; if they went up, they would see her. How would they not see her?
Law. Muhammed Fatih Demir : Alright. Was there any problem between the Nevzat Bahtiyar family and the Arif Güran family? How were relations prior to the incident?
Maşşallah Güran : There was no problem at all.
Law. Muhammed Fatih Demir : There was no problem.
Maşşallah Güran : There wasn’t. As far as I know, there wasn’t.
Law. Muhammed Fatih Demir : Now, I’m asking for Narin— for the deceased. Was Nevzat Bahtiyar a stranger to her?
Maşşallah Güran : Pardon?
Law. Muhammed Fatih Demir : Was he a stranger to Narin? Or would she see him like an uncle? I mean, would she like him?
Maşşallah Güran : Well, when his grandchildren were around, he would love his grandchildren. He would go.
Law. Muhammed Fatih Demir : Then would Narin go if Nevzat Bahtiyar told her to come? Would she say, “Hello Uncle Nevzat,” greet him?
Maşşallah Güran : Since I did not see it, I cannot say anything about that.
Law. Muhammed Fatih Demir : You did not see. I am not asking you for something you did not witness. But since you are in the village, you can make an inference. It is a general situation.
Presiding Judge : Let’s not take conjecture. She said she did not see.
Law. Muhammed Fatih Demir : Thank you.
Presiding Judge : Thank you.
Defense Counsels for Yüksel Güran
Law. Furkan Çakır
Law. Furkan Çakır : How were relations between you and Yüksel Güran?
Maşşallah Güran : Very good. Good with all of them.
Law. Furkan Çakır : Before and after the day of the incident, did you ever notice any unusual act or behavior by Yüksel Güran?
Maşşallah Güran : When she called me, she called me in her normal manner. She called me as she does every day.
Law. Furkan Çakır : Alright. Now, there is a report drawn up by the gendarmerie personnel dated 09/08/2024. In that report there is an interpretation— this is our view as the defense. The interpretation of an interpretation has been carried into the indictment. I will ask only this: At the time the argument took place, was Yüksel Güran there? Or during that argument did Yüksel Güran have, say, a nervous breakdown? Could you tell us this incident in full detail?
Maşşallah Güran : Yüksel Güran fainted. She fainted before that argument took place. We took her into the ambulance. We took her into the ambulance. I returned to my place. Then this argument happened.
Law. Furkan Çakır : Alright. Thank you.
Maşşallah Güran : Yüksel was not there.
Presiding Judge : Alright. Thank you very much.
Law. Tuncay Erkuş
Law. Tuncay Erkuş : Now, it may merely be hearsay, but I am asking to clarify. It is said that there was a problem arising from vehicle trade between Arif and Nevzat Bahtiyar. It is said the congregation imposed a penalty on Nevzat Bahtiyar— that a payment was imposed on him. And after he paid, there was unrest within the household. Later, from your house, Gazal Bahtiyar—that is, Nevzat Bahtiyar—
Presiding Judge : Let him finish his question.
Law. Tuncay Erkuş : While she was at your place, it is said she made a statement like, “I do not give my blessing. We paid this money. We were put in a difficult position. We do not give our blessing.” It may be just such a saying, but it is said this incident took place in your house. Did such an incident occur?
Maşşallah Güran : Absolutely not. Absolutely not in my house. Not in my house.
Law. Tuncay Erkuş : In your house, did Gazal Bahtiyar ever make such a statement of the kind, “Because we paid this money, we do not give our blessing”— something like a protest?
Maşşallah Güran : I do not remember that. I was not at home. I was not at home for a month and a half.
Law. Tuncay Erkuş : After little Narin disappeared, among the women who came to visit you, did Gazal Bahtiyar ever say something like, “We are leaving here anyway. We will move our home. We will go to another province. We will go to Istanbul”?
Maşşallah Güran : When she disappeared?
Law. Tuncay Erkuş : In the dates after the disappearance— it could be a few days later, a week later.
Presiding Judge : In other words, did Gazal say such a thing?
Maşşallah Güran : No.
Presiding Judge : Alright. Thank you. Thank you.
Maşşallah Güran : In fact, I want to say this.
Presiding Judge : Of course.
Maşşallah Güran : There was no fire. I mean, it had not broken out. The day before that we were at Yüksel’s. We sat and talked. I had a dream. Çilye— that is, Tavşantepe— was burning. She even cried. I also asked for a cigarette. I gave her a cigarette. Then the next day the village burned. Could such a thing be?
Presiding Judge : It can. Why not? There is a realm of dreams. I mean, I believe in dreams. Not “the presiding judge believed in dreams,” but I do believe. Don’t you?
Maşşallah Güran : I do.